Embracing the Shadow Side

In this conversation, Julian and Cristiano delve into the concept of the shadow side, exploring its implications on personal growth, relationships, and self-awareness. They discuss how acknowledging and integrating one's shadow can lead to empowerment and authenticity. The dialogue also touches on the influence of social media, the dynamics of friendship, and the importance of kindness and vulnerability in human connections. Through personal anecdotes and reflections, they highlight the shared experiences of navigating the complexities of identity and emotional health.

Thank you Cristiano and the NEQ team

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Transcript

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Welcome

Julian/Phantom 0:18

Welcome! Welcome back. I'm your host, Julian. My name today is Phantom, and this is the rarest name that I have because usually the topics I correlate with this name. It's the hardest for me. I'm not here by myself. Tyler is still away, but I have Cristiano.

Cristiano 0:41

My pleasure to be on the show. I'm excited to chat to you. Thank you so much.

Julian/Phantom 0:46

Yes. No, I actually really am looking forward for this conversation.

7-ish days

Julian/Phantom 0:51

But before we get into the main question of everything, how was your last seven-ish days? The last seven days...

Cristiano 1:00

were insightful, I should say, emotionally challenging at times and physically challenging as well because I'm preparing for a fitness race. So it was a good mix of the physical, the emotional, the spiritual, the shadow and all of the above.

Julian/Phantom 1:23

Wow. So you said a fit was... If you don't mind me prying in just a little bit. A fitness race? Because when I hear fitness, first when I hear race, I'm just thinking you're just running X distance. But a fitness race? What does that involve? So it's

Cristiano 1:41

called the Hyrox. Okay. It's a new sport that will take over the world pretty soon. Not many people know about it, but it's growing exponentially every year. So there is some running in it. So it's eight kilometers. I don't know how much is that in miles. And after each kilometers, there is a strength station. So a slat pull, a slat push, or like a flounce carry with some weights or like lunges. And it's eight stations. And you have to complete it in the least time possible. Interesting. I've done it three times already. This is going to be my fourth. And I'm going to have to beat the previous time.

Julian/Phantom 2:32

That sounds very interesting. I wish you the best of luck with that.

Cristiano 2:37

Thank

Julian/Phantom 2:37

you so much. Wait, you've done it three times already? You got it. My physical challenge will be trying to get on American Ninja Warrior if I can ever do that. Anything else in your last seven days?

Cristiano 2:55

Lots of writing. Working on my book every day. Working on my blog. Spending time in nature as much as I can. Trying to ground. Yeah.

Julian/Phantom 3:08

Nice. I like this. I like this a lot. I'm going to focus. So you write often?

Cristiano 3:18

I, well, yeah, I'm working on my book, so I try to do, I train in the morning early and then spend the rest of the morning until lunchtime writing two or three hours. Sometimes it's easy, sometimes it's not. And then in the afternoon I go in nature, maybe do some more writing when I get back home and yeah.

Julian/Phantom 3:40

Okay. very nice i like it for me not so much on the physical aspect of side of things for sure um but let's have what's happened in my last seven days um oh for for one i may or may not have potentially lost another friend um unfortunately uh there was a conversation that we were having I understand how they interpret the situation. Didn't mean for it to, you know, be out of mouths or anything. So, uh, hopefully I, you know, can salvage our friendship, but if not, um, I can't do anything about that. Um, well, this has happened in my last seven ish days. Um, I was in the forest. I'm always like out in the woods doing something. Well, not all the time, but, uh, just out in the trees, uh, all day and, for work, and I enjoy every second of it. Anytime I get to be out in nature, I'm happy. That's

Cristiano 4:44

beautiful. What do you do?

Julian/Phantom 4:47

I don't know how to explain it, but I just work in nature, basically. Yeah. Anything else happen in my last seven days that is relevant? I can't think of anything. I know I just actually just did another recording earlier this week which like I told you this is kind of the new system of everything so I'm still testing everything out so forgive me if things aren't working properly like they're supposed to like you would expect but I told the other person like you get the benefit of being the first you're fortunate and unfortunate enough to be like the early testers of me testing this new system but Yeah, that's my last seven-ish days. I feel like I'm forgetting something, but it may or may not come up.

Cristiano 5:36

That's okay. Maybe it wasn't important.

Julian/Phantom 5:40

Very true. But with all that out the way, the question... Oh, I will also preface for friends... I'm probably going to get myself in trouble with one of these episodes because I have friends and co-workers listen to some of these episodes every so often. So... Oh! Some... As you see, I'm always scatterbrained with what I have to say. But you're also catching this on a silly Saturday, so we really could have fun.

Cristiano 6:12

Okay.

Julian/Phantom 6:14

But the question

Have you learned anything from embracing your shadow side?

Julian/Phantom 6:14

of the day actually comes from Cristiano. And like I said, phantom means there's usually something that I'm not really aware of. So the question is, have you learned anything from embracing your shadow side? Many things.

Cristiano 6:31

Um... Yeah, in a short sentence, many things. And then it expands onto professional aspects of my personality, personals, the spiritual, the emotional aspect, the sexual aspect of my being. So there are multiple ways we can look into it. But I'll give you how I got to know my shadow and what is a shadow, firstly. I

Julian/Phantom 7:06

was about to ask, I'm like, please, can you also break this down for what is the shadow side? Because, again, this will have been a really great topic for my friend Tyler, but she's not here with us. But please, please explain.

Cristiano 7:20

Yeah, so the shadow side is, firstly, I'm not the one who discovered Yeah, like many people before me discovered it. So the shadow side is to make it simple is all the traits we despise about ourselves, all the things that we don't like about ourselves, and that we spend so much time and energy to suppress them and to get rid of them. And that's what's keeping us stuck in a loop of judgment, sabotage, doubts, lack of self-esteem, not knowing, thinking that we know about ourselves, but we actually don't, pretending to be someone else we are not. These are all traits that are part of the shadow. And interestingly enough, all these traits... are the same traits most of the time that we dislike about other people too. So if you are speaking to someone or dealing with someone and we don't like what they say, we don't like what they do, even if it's not towards us, we just don't like their energy for a reason, most of the time the thing they do and the thing they say, they trigger us But instead of accepting it, we create a wall in between the trigger and our reactions. So we hold ourselves slaves in a way of somebody else's power over us because we are not honest and vulnerable enough to firstly accept and then to acknowledge those less likable parts of ourselves.

Speaker 02 9:26

Okay. Absolutely.

Cristiano 9:28

Yeah. The first step is to acknowledge that we all have these traits that we dislike and there's nothing wrong with them. They are part of our personality as individuals. as the traits that we like. There's no difference. The only difference is that we are afraid of them, of the one that we dislike. So we create a split in our personality. So if you think our personality as a collective, then we kind of pick it apart. So this part, we don't like it, we put it out. This part, we don't like it, we put it out. And we keep doing that. this process with all the things that we dislike about ourselves. And that's eventually what triggers our reactions to certain events, which normally are external to us. And then we blame other people for doing so, for saying so. And we're finding it hard to... to accept it in ourselves.

Julian/Phantom 10:44

Okay. So that's

Cristiano 10:45

the, that's the process that we go through when, when discovering about, about the shadow.

Julian/Phantom 10:51

Okay. So would it be kind of something like, um, you like, like, let's just say someone likes to gamble, uh, and they are heavily addicted to it, but they try not to show people. Is that, is that kind of in the same realm as if I'm, Or not necessarily.

Cristiano 11:10

Yeah, if they dislike their traits about themselves, yes. It can be an addiction too. It's like a drug addict. They keep doing drugs and they know it's not a good thing to do for them. And they hate that part of themselves. But they keep doing it because they don't know otherwise. And maybe they stop. But because it is an addiction... then they replace it with another addiction. They never get rid of the addiction. And that's the root cause of addiction too. Okay.

Julian/Phantom 11:45

Okay, I'm following. So, okay. So how would you describe your shadow side?

Cristiano 11:53

So my shadow side is being the center of attention and public speaking. So I am... I absolutely, I used to, now I'm working on it and it's becoming part of who I am. I'm learning how to love that part of myself. So I'm going to talk about it as if it was the past. Okay. So it used to be being at the center of attention, which means I was terrified by being at the center of attention, but I was secretly... wanting to be at the center of attention

Julian/Phantom 12:35

okay

Cristiano 12:35

well if i was within a context that i had competence to let's say discuss about a topic um being a center of attention would enhance my confidence would boost my confidence would uh allow me to express organically but within a context of something else that i didn't feel confidence and i didn't have the competence to express myself That shadow part of me absolutely destroyed my sense of self-esteem. Okay. It was like being the fish on the tree. Do you know that story?

Julian/Phantom 13:15

I don't, but I'm laughing because I heard something about it, a fish on a tree a while back ago saying if you see a fish on a tree, would society consider it... A genius or dumb. Yeah, that's the story. That's

Cristiano 13:33

the essence of the story. So it related to my shadow.

Julian/Phantom 13:40

Okay. Since this is a new topic for me, I'm just going to guess what my shadow side is per se. Which I also want to say, you having a... You saying your shadow side is being the center of attention, my immediate thought was, that doesn't sound like a super terrible thing to have all the time. Well, it's not only one, the

Cristiano 14:06

shadow. There are multiple shadow sides of ourselves, and they keep a hold. This part of myself, now it's integrated in my personality. That's why I'm doing podcasts. I wouldn't be here if that wasn't integrated. got you okay I got to the truth of that but now it's evolving into something else so I'm understanding about you know how it's affecting my sexuality or my spirituality or my emotional capacity okay yeah but now I'm interested to see like what's what's your guess on your

Julian/Phantom 14:43

I think mine if shadow side is probably something to do with like sex and everything because it's Something that's always like... Not always on the back of my mind. But I tie it into... How do I put it? The things that I'm willing to do probably isn't... I don't see it as like taboo. Let's just think random. Oh, so something like this, right? Um... This is actually, I got into an issue with this with a friend of mine a while back ago.

Cristiano 15:31

It's a perfect example.

Julian/Phantom 15:33

Yeah, so I asked the question and it wasn't supposed to be towards this actual person. I was asking in pure generosity, but I'm like, If you had a friend who would be willing to do something sexual to you, whatever, no strings attached, no complications, no issues whatsoever, would you let this person do it? That was the question I asked. And like I said, I wasn't asking it towards that person, but I do know there's certain friends that I have that I would be that person for if if it was brought up to me, if that makes sense. If they asked you or if you asked them? If they asked me, because I also know with it being friends, I'm not going to actively put myself in that situation to make things awkward if they weren't asking for it. Because I want to keep my friends, that's for sure. I know that whole area makes things very complicated sometimes.

Cristiano 16:44

So you would be the person with no strings attached,

Julian/Phantom 16:48

no complication. Exactly. If

Cristiano 16:50

somebody asked you to do it, you would do something sexual with them, but without all the complications.

Julian/Phantom 16:57

For the most part, yeah. Of course, it depends on who and what situation I'm in at the time. But that's what I think. Because I'm hearing shadows out of something that's taboo that you try not to... expressed basically, right? Am I getting that right? Correct. Yes. Yeah. Okay. Yeah. So I think that's, um, because, and then, yeah, I think a lot of it deals with like the sexual aspect of, of my life.

Cristiano 17:28

Yes. Well, that's, that's really courageous to say. And I, I can relate to everything you said because, because I am understanding that of myself. That's why I mentioned it before because it has affected my whole life. And, You said

Julian/Phantom 17:47

you were toxic at some times?

Cristiano 17:49

Well, yeah, yeah, of course. Okay, okay. I would use it in a toxic way.

Julian/Phantom 17:54

Got you,

Cristiano 17:55

okay. You know, unconsciously hurt people. Not intentionally, obviously. It was just lack of wisdom, I guess.

Julian/Phantom 18:06

Got you, okay. And I think that's also what comes from mine is why... say it this way is because I think about all the time, because I have the thought process like someone's always watching me. So I'm like, if someone's watching me, is this something that I should probably do or do and or say? And I'm like, probably not. So that's how I kind of got to that, my thought process too. What sense watching you though? Like, like, like some, you ever heard the expression like, like, Maybe not even an expression, but act like someone's always watching you. So I feel like if someone's always watching or hearing me, that directs conversation sometimes of like, what I'm willing to do and or say like I try to be on my like best behavior if that makes sense so that means away from your sexual poses exactly which I'm not going to say is always a bad thing because there's always a time and a place for it for sure and sometimes will just be very inappropriate like let's just say work for example like I've more than likely shouldn't Like I said, someone's going to hear this and I might put myself in trouble, but like, yeah, so let's, yeah. So like, I shouldn't be sexual at work or anything, like keep it off hours, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. So stuff like that. Yeah. All the taboos, but I have

Can you turn your shadow side into something positive?

Julian/Phantom 19:37

nothing else to really say about that aspect of it, but do want it to know how do you think you could bring your shadow side into Make it like a positive by any chance, like turn into a positive. I know you said you're working on it. Well, that's

Cristiano 19:52

the intention. The intention of working on your shadow side is to, as I mentioned before, to integrate those parts back into your personality and use them at your advantage, not to... Obviously, not to manipulate people. That's not what I'm saying. That's not why I said use it to your advantage. It sounds a bit, you know, you're trying to manipulate, but that's not the goal. Use it to your advantage because on the shadow parts of yourself, that's where potential lies. If you accept even the ugliest parts of yourself... and your fears and you're sincere with that process, then it will lead you to empowerment and empowerment will lead you to show up fully in life, to show up authentically and unapologetically. So that's the goal of working on your shadow. For example, relating to what I said before, the center of attention. Like if I went honest with myself and I said, oh yeah, that's fine. I'll work on it when I'm old or like I never work on it. I wouldn't be here talking to you, doing podcasts and expressing myself out of genuine interest in having this type of vulnerable conversation with people. And I wouldn't be writing my book. I wouldn't be doing all these things because there would be a certain feeling of... Unworthiness lingering still within me. So the intention of working on your shadow is exactly this. To... To allow your desire, your potential to surface and to use it. Okay. That...

Julian/Phantom 21:57

That... You also said something about manipulating and everything. I... I def... I... I relate to your story a lot, actually, because, um, something that I've had in the back of my mind, kind of going off of, um, kind of going off of what I said about like being always being watching everything or someone's always watching you. I also have the mindset of like, I'm going to do what I want. Um, nothing is, nothing truly can stop me if I really want to do something. So, um, uh, but I take that into consideration. Like, uh, let's just say I wanted to do something heinous, whatever heinous thing you want to think of. I want to do something heinous. If I really wanted to do it, I weigh my consequences and still do it like hands down. But I do know, like I said, there's, I'm going to say guardrails. That's stopping me. Like there's, I'm like, I, yes, I could want to do this, but I'm like, I'm not going to because the results of whatever my action may be, isn't worth doing X thing. If that makes sense.

Cristiano 23:06

Yeah. Yeah, it does. Yeah. It means that you, it means that you, you credit the option of having a choice yourself, which is, which is, I think a, a double edged sword. Um, because it is one of the hardest thing to do to, to have a choice sometimes, um, because you, you never know, you know, you, You never know which one is the right way to go. You know, if you decide to go for it, then you have to take the consequences, as you said. And if you don't do it, you also have to take the consequences because maybe it will become a regret later in life. Maybe it will make you feel less than or like inferior. So there are positive and consequences in everything.

Julian/Phantom 24:00

Yeah. But you mentioned how do you stop? Like, I can't remember how

How many people do you think share your shadow side?

Julian/Phantom 24:07

you phrased it, but you said something about like, how do you, uh, how many people do you think share your shadow side? Like, uh, because I know we all like unique individuals and everything, but we all share something in common. Yes. That's a great question.

Cristiano 24:25

Um, I think, uh, Well, it doesn't matter. I don't know what's the truth, honestly, but I think everyone has to go through a phase where they worry about what other people think. Because at the same time, being a center of attention means that to a degree you are worrying about what other people think of you and what you might say. Or what you might not say if you make mistakes, which in the end of the day, nobody really cares. Yeah. So

Julian/Phantom 25:07

in that regard, yes. Okay. No, I do think there's definitely... Yeah, I think there's people with the same shadow side as me, even though I'm not fully aware of my life. Yeah, like I said, I'm not fully aware of my shadow side. I know there has to be people that have the same impulse, I'm going to say. But off of these questions, though... Do you think you surround your friend, like subconsciously surround yourself or have friends that have the same shadow side as you? That's

Cristiano 25:47

why I'm talking to you. I feel like the sexual parts, it's pretty, I can relate to that, you know, which I think, yeah, many guys have that shadow. Yeah.

Speaker 02 26:03

pulse,

Cristiano 26:05

whatever you want to call it, which it needs to be controlled, right? As you said, there are places for it and there are times where you just need to acknowledge that it's the time to shut it down. But yeah, I was going to say that humans, we are more similar that... that we think of in all the aspects that makes us humans, whether it's the shadow side, whether the light side, whether it's the love we feel, the connection we feel. So I think, not I think, I've read through, I don't know if you know him, Carl Jung, Yeah, so he was talking about the collective shadow as well, which is the shadow of the universe, which means the shadow of humans, which is the commonality we have as human beings. So yeah, to answer to your question, we definitely share aspects and... The lighter one and the darkest one as well.

Julian/Phantom 27:17

Okay. That actually... Because I was also trying to get away from the... Because I know you said there was more... You had more than one shadow in you. So I was wanting to see if you had... If you happened to notice someone else's shadow side. But you bring up the book. It actually reminds me of a book that I recently read, Outwitting the Devil. Yeah. or basically said the same thing, where the shallow side of the universe, or at least in life, in the context of the book, was kind of focused on being... What's the word I'm looking for? Not mundane, per se, but it's just falling into bad habits of... Let's just say laziness was one of them. You just actively choosing not to... Let's just say workout. Like you, you choose to not work out on a daily basis. You, you, you overeat stuff like that. So that's kind of what the book was saying too, is that, and you would have to overcome that to, to be better. Yeah.

Cristiano 28:25

Well, it's the

Julian/Phantom 28:25

challenges of life. Yeah. But, oh, and so with the shadow side, what would you say? Well, actually, yeah. You're kind of teaching me. So again, I apologize for that. I think

Cristiano 28:41

you're spot on. You're pretty... If you didn't know before, you're pretty quick at understanding. I don't want to teach anything. I'm just sharing my journey.

What is a strength you don't like to talk about?

Julian/Phantom 28:56

Yeah, no, no. And I learned from people's journeys and everything too. So I appreciate you for that. But so that's your shadow side. What would you say is like... positive light that you like to that you don't necessarily like to talk about the positive of oh like just positive of yourself side and or just the positive trait of yourself like the complete opposite of the shadow side

Cristiano 29:25

yeah which is an interesting topic too because I think we also sometimes like hide from those traits that we are good at. So that also requires a process of accepting and knowledgeing and, you know, integrating, for example, like love or like authenticity. It's not like we are influenced by society and they're all traits that we suppress as we, as we grow older, but that we, when, when we were a child, we were used like, so like, They were so natural to us to express, to show up authentically in life. So I would say one of my, let's say we'll call it strength, just to give it a label. I think one of my strengths is to try my best to be truthful towards myself. Okay. I like that. Therefore to other people. Okay. Because you can't be truthful to other people if you're not true with yourself. So I think I'm in that phase of my life, which I am actively practicing to be truthful to myself in every situation, but at the same time, not to make it too logical. Okay. I like that. What's your strength?

Julian/Phantom 30:55

For me, my strength... uh i was like a strength that i like to like high per se is my willingness to help people um i not to go into any details because uh again because uh but i will easily go out my way to help a friend and not never mention it again uh there or and not even just a friend uh i i have like a soft spot for homeless people so they're i'll say this one there are sometimes like when we uh have what is it like uh potlucks at work or something and i see that there's extra food i will sometimes take that extra food and just give it to the homeless so that is and then there's uh other things i have in the works that's uh trying to help the homeless as well so that that's that's usually my like a strength that i try to keep hitting um because i don't cut on the opposite of you i'm trying not to be in the center of the attention that way i'd rather just uh be that um shadow person where i just do a good deed um and just go about my day i that I can honestly tell you that that is my strength that I like to do often.

Cristiano 32:18

What drives you to do that? One

Julian/Phantom 32:29

part is I feel like it just is, but there is also a part of me where I feel like at some some point in time i might end up in that same situation um so if i were to be in that situation how i want other people to treat me if i was in that situation i think that's the underlying aspect of why i do it so often

Cristiano 32:57

yeah do you do you do you use that trait even in your daily life with with friends and work not just with homeless

Julian/Phantom 33:06

oh yeah i think so um Just because I see it as just being kind to people and something that I actually took from Puerto Rico is that I've noticed that everyone was like saying hi in the morning, like really having a conversation. So I actually took that back with me. And so ever since I've been going around my office before I, and I even, I say this often, um, I go around and say good morning, just smile, ask them how their weekend was, stuff like that. Just so it's not so boring that you're just facing a computer screen all day. And then with friends, when they ask about how I see it is when... they ask about me i'm always ask about them like they're without without hesitation like uh it could be my birthday and there's like oh happy birthday i'm like oh how are you been how are you like i don't focus on me i focus on them um um and i just so that that's how i see it at least

Speaker 02 34:07

yeah

Julian/Phantom 34:11

what about yourself how do you Do you only use your strength to benefit you or have you found a way to... I

Cristiano 34:22

tend to, yes. I tend to... I was actually reflecting on the term selfishness versus selflessness just the other day and I was journeying about it. Which I find it fascinating. But to answer your question... I tend to do less kind gestures to other people. I just don't pay attention to it. I'm not an asshole. I've got friends. I know how to be kind. It's just not... Your first thought, right? It's not my... Yeah, it's not my first option. It's not what I think about all day long. Yeah, no, which is completely understandable. But yeah, what I was journeying about, I was reflecting on selfishness and I was thinking about all the people that they wrote biographies, all the artists that they paint, whether they are famous or not. Because sometimes I feel that selfishness is a bit of taboo as well. If we see someone excelling at something, like there's a part of us that maybe I'm talking for myself, but I know people can relate. Maybe there's a part of ourselves that's envious of that, jealous of that, which is also part of the shadow side. So I was thinking, I was thinking, why do we, why do we hold so much respect to, to these famous artists, like alternative figure? And why do we, why do we hold our friends or people that we know sometimes slaves of their own, you know, artistic gifts?

Unknown 36:38

Yeah.

Cristiano 36:39

And we envy them, but we don't envy the famous artists. So I was thinking to myself, if you were to meet the artists, would you go there and tell them you're selfish because you painted the Mona Lisa? Or would you go there and thank them because they gave you a glimpse of faith, of hope in humanity and the creative power?

Unknown 37:08

Yeah.

Cristiano 37:09

That was where my reflection came from. And that's a bit how I am evolving in this phase of my life, taking responsibility for that, for those gifts that I'm discovering about myself and not shying away from them. Okay. But I know that eventually I will get to a point where I'll be able to share those gifts with Um, with, with more kindness, with love, not just because myself, if that makes sense.

Julian/Phantom 37:47

Yeah, no, that, that makes a lot of sense. Something you said though, that, um, that made, uh, like made my gears in my head turning about, uh, if you saw like that artist, um, right next to you, uh, why, why, why, why don't we do it with friends? I feel like that is because of the closeness. um it's kind of like if you saw uh like let's just say like a famous athlete and he's like well you will never chances are you will never meet that person whatsoever but because your friends are so close to you that you have not a sense of entitlement i won't say but you it's like you're comparing yourself to to to your friend something like how you were saying before how it's in closeness we like criticize and the thing that we uh judge our friends off of because how close they are to us

Cristiano 38:42

yeah because you leave them you just don't see them in television

Julian/Phantom 38:47

yeah so i think that even though you didn't ask that's that's just something that i just that i thought of why why

Cristiano 38:55

yeah

Julian/Phantom 38:56

why we treat friends, I guess, in a sense, into a higher degree than we see people that we physically can't touch. Yeah. Yeah. That's just my own personal thought to

Cristiano 39:16

it. Where do you think that dynamic comes from with our friends?

Julian/Phantom 39:21

With our

Cristiano 39:21

friends? Why sometimes it's hard to elevate them or not to compare ourselves to them and just unconditionally be there, I guess.

Julian/Phantom 39:33

I think what... Huh. Let me... Why it's so hard to... I think it's because we actually... In any way, we want... I think it's twofold. I think we want better for our friends because we see their potential. Because just imagine a friend saying... Being scared of being in the talent show. When, you know, behind the scenes, they have an amazing singing voice. But they just won't show up on stage whatsoever. So it's like you're trying... in your manner, trying to push them to be the best versions of themselves that you see. But it's also in the same breath. You can't control them. So you wish them the best, and you get frustrated when you see that they aren't living up to... to their potential

Cristiano 40:38

yeah so like in a way also projecting your your imprinting onto them exactly even though it originates from genuine intentions

Julian/Phantom 40:50

yeah no that's that's my thought at least and yeah and you said you agree or you do you think anything different I think

Cristiano 40:58

I'm on the same page. There must be other dynamics playing, but not on top of my mind right now.

Julian/Phantom 41:09

Yeah, that was just my immediate thought of how I think about that.

Cristiano 41:14

Perhaps about cultural imprinting or society. That is true. Comparison, nature, especially these days. where you're always stimulated to be successful and be better than everybody and all that crap.

Speaker 02 41:39

Can I say crap?

Julian/Phantom 41:42

No, I do agree because I think that's also part of how you mentioned in today's age with social media, how everyone shows their highlights of, oh, I'm... travel to this location, whatever I have this car, but there's no behind the scenes work of like, Hey, I spent, uh, like five weeks working overtime on the weekend getting to afford this. So I think that's also part of it is that we only see like when people are at their best or, um, now people show that when they're at their best or like a highlight. That's the shadow

Cristiano 42:22

side of social media. Which makes it even harder to acknowledge our human shadow. And that's the issue as well. It's not just us with us. It's also us versus the social media. It's us versus society and what they want you to believe. So it becomes so hard to... To even acknowledge all those traits that we talked about before.

Julian/Phantom 42:52

Yeah, no, I didn't even think about a shallow side, not even going, just you, it's not just you versus you, it's you versus everything. Never, never thought about that.

Cristiano 43:03

Yeah. I don't, I don't like to, to say, uh, I don't like to, I used to, I used to think about like, it's me versus me, like having that mindset. i i rephrased it for myself so i like to to say it's you it's me with me oh i like that i'm not competing with myself either um and that's something else that will keep me stuck in the past because i i had to be better of of my former self like Living with that mindset becomes lots of pressure on yourself. And it's not healthy. Again, there is a place for it. So when I'm doing the race, I'm going to push myself. But if I'm talking to, you know, like we are doing, or if I'm talking to other people, I don't have to compete with anybody, not even with myself.

Julian/Phantom 43:56

I like that. Because I think the other... shadow side of me going off your uh uh your comment of uh how you don't like to use me versus uh me that's actually something that i've had for i don't even know when is because um for like me like doing me getting physically healthy i always like to think of like i have to be able to beat myself because if i can beat myself then I could beat anyone. But you saying it's me with me, I like that. Yeah. I mean,

Cristiano 44:32

obviously there's nothing wrong if you want to push yourself. Oh, yeah. And, you know, do races, physical races or whatever you're into. But it depends what sort of mindset you approach that with.

Julian/Phantom 44:46

Yeah, no, very, very true. Oh, and then I was just saying with the shadow side, I think another shadow side of mine is... I'm hesitant about this one because I might be picking up a friend of mine's desire as well, because I know I like... I've noticed I tend to pick up my friend's traits and everything, so I'm worried about saying this one, but the ability... Wanting to fight. Because I'm not someone. Who will play. I can't play fight. It's either I'm fully. I'm serious or I'm not. And there's no in between. So yeah. I think that's another shadow side of mine that I have to dive more into is fighting, for sure.

Cristiano 45:38

As in wanting to actually fight? Yeah, yeah. Not for having fun, just to beat somebody

Julian/Phantom 45:48

up? Something like that, yeah. But like I said, I have to be wary because I might be thinking of my friend and adopting... my friends desires as well because with the fighting aspect I do want to be able to protect kind of still going off my strength is like I do want to be able to protect the people I care about for sure so and if I can't I feel like if I can't do that I will yeah if I'm in a situation where I need to protect them and I can't would probably like devastate me Okay.

Cristiano 46:27

Well, it's still a genuine intention, so...

Julian/Phantom 46:29

Yeah.

Cristiano 46:30

Yeah.

Julian/Phantom 46:31

Yeah, but... I don't have any more questions for you as of right now, unless you have anything?

Cristiano 46:40

Well, probably, like, following

Julian/Phantom 46:42

up on what you said. About me, the fighting side or me, like, adapting my friend's desire, or you're not sure?

Cristiano 46:52

Oh, yes, correct. Yeah, I was going to say... I was going to say that you are aware because it's a thing, like absorbing other people's desires and anxieties or worries. But in your case, you feel like it's more like a shadow

Julian/Phantom 47:12

thing? Just a little bit because, like I said, I'm still not aware of the shadow side so much. I would have to, like, do more, uh, I'm more of a deep dive into it, but just for this conversation is like, yeah, no, I'm a very physical person for sure. Um, let's see, like when I was, um, younger, like somewhere in like high school or something, I always wanted to just jump and going into college. I always just wanted to jump over people. Like, uh, it doesn't matter how tall you were. Like I wanted to just jump over you or, um, race you or something. So that There's always that, but I want to call that a shadow side per se, because I actively would express people to people like, oh, let me do X, Y, and Z. I guess this is a question for you. Is

Is the shadow side only something you try to hide?

Julian/Phantom 48:03

the shadow side, is it only something that you try to hide or can it be something that you just can't express? Like in my situation, like I tell people, but I can't always do it. Do you have an answer for that?

Cristiano 48:19

I think if I'm getting your question correctly, I think if you're expressing something that you think might be a shadow, then it doesn't become a shadow anymore. Okay. Because if you're expressing it, it means that has no power over you yet. So an integrated shadow means it is controlling you in a way. For example, our sexual impulses sometimes, they control you when it's so strong and too hard to control that you just can't do it. You have to act on it. If it makes you feel bad in a way afterwards, then you followed the wrong impulse. If it made you feel okay with it like aligned if it made you feel it was the right thing to do then you follow the right impulse okay so yeah i would say i never asked myself that question so thank you for asking me but uh

Speaker 02 49:32

yeah

Cristiano 49:32

it's uh if you're expressing it then there has no power over you and the funny thing is that if you are the first one to to be honest to yourself about the traits that you don't like, then you become untouchable to other people's critique of you. That is true. Because when you acknowledge something that you don't like in yourself, and then you get somebody else telling you that, it's fine. You already know. You don't have to... You don't have to listen to them. You don't have to... they have no power over you anymore

Julian/Phantom 50:15

that no i like that because that's actually something that i kind of do when i make like uh jokes about myself um because my name so my name is julian right uh and so when i tell people my name what i get them to remember is like you've seen the movie literally what i say is uh you've seen the movie madagascar right or you heard of it

Cristiano 50:36

Yeah, I heard of it, but I didn't see it.

Julian/Phantom 50:38

Okay, but there's a character called King Julian, and he's a lemur. So if you've seen, it's a way to connect. And then there are two behind the scenes that's going on in my mind. It's like, all right, first, I'm calling myself a monkey already. So it's like, you can't call me that. Like, I already... or I did it myself, but I'm also use it as a way to say I'm comparing myself to a king. So it was like, I can take it. I can play with it that way. So that's, I understand that completely.

Cristiano 51:10

That's a, that's a, that's an archetypal

Julian/Phantom 51:16

conversation. I have a lot of deep thoughts like that sometimes. Oh no. Well, I'm not sure, but you, that's just something I'm like, Oh, let me just so people can't hold power over me. That's something that I do because I, early early like middle school or something I would always um I can't remember on I'm about to go on a tangent so but um like I would always take people's like phones or something things like like real simple things I can't really be replaced um and so I would introduce myself as like the thief that way he's like all right cool you can't hold like uh incriminate me and like no here's I really don't know why I started talking about this, but... Oh, that's why. Because I knew from... So I always take people's things, but I wouldn't actually take it. I would give it back. And I realized I just wanted a reaction... from from people so once people stop reacting to me i stopped taking their stuff because i'm like that's all i really want i just wanted to see how you react to things it's like pushing boundaries yes and

Speaker 02 52:30

yeah

Julian/Phantom 52:31

i'm someone who easily i'll i'll say this i'll push a boundary i will see how far i can get i will never intentionally cross a boundary that that's where i my my line is drawn i will never intentionally cross your boundary i always try to push

Cristiano 52:48

We have more, more in common things that, what do you think you do that pushing boundaries? Is it just to get a reaction or to get a, like to get a sense of, create an identity or like a sense of self in a way, self-esteem?

Julian/Phantom 53:06

Huh? I never questioned why, but I guess for me, it was more so, uh, really, huh? I have to think on that one. My immediate answer is I just wanted to see their reaction. There was a... No, because I'm like, all right, I guess it's kind of... In a terrible way of explaining this, it's me trying to test where I am in the friendship. I'm like, all right, let's see if I can... I might... is this acceptable is this not acceptable uh that way i kind of know how far i can go because i know everyone's different so i'm like all right again not trying to manipulate anyone not trying to cross any boundaries but it's like all right you i'm like i can have this uh let's just say i can have this conversation with you but i know i can't have it with uh with another person because we I'm not there yet. And so I think that's kind of why I do it is just to see how far I can go. It's just broadened my horizon. Yeah. Just to kind of broaden what I can talk about or what I can do and what I can say. Is

Cristiano 54:17

it, is it something that you do from the, from the beginning of a relationship or when you know somebody for the first time, or is it something that you, you build?

Julian/Phantom 54:29

Hmm. It, honest answer it depends on on the situation because i know recently i just met someone um that i that i didn't uh like and everything and i i was pushing that boundary just to see how far i can go um and with that they've like um was fully out there i told them how i felt there's like not now i'm like all right cool but at least we've had that conversation so now i know i'm like all right i can fall back here and i should i in theory should still be safe but in other situations where i'm not when i have no interest in the person whatsoever i'm take it slower uh just to um It's something that I talked about, like building trust. Because I have made a quote, actually, that trust is the byproduct of risk. So I can't... I'm not trying to push so much out there to where it's overwhelming, I'm going to say, to where it's like, all right, actually, never mind. I just don't want to do this. So it all just kind of depends on where... uh, my intentions are, but I try to gauge it, uh, respect, no matter what respect is always in there. Like if I know you're going through something or if, um, today, like I know he's not a bad day, today's not, you haven't been having a good day. I'm probably want to just, uh, push that boundary. If that makes sense.

Cristiano 56:16

Yeah. Yeah. Is it something that shows up within a romantic context specifically or in

Julian/Phantom 56:24

any context? Romantic context for sure, but I've realized it is actually just in everything that I do. Like I said, the questions I've asked here and in past episodes and just questions that I think of them and sometimes I'm like, No, this is a good question to ask, even though... And I could be blinded by the question. No, not that. Even though the question is hard-hitting, I will say, because I would ask questions like, do you think you grew up the way your parents wanted you to? Something that's just hard-hitting like that. So... Uh, me, me is just, uh, I have, I have the question and it's also a part of me wanting to seek knowledge just a little bit, uh, just to, just because I like to hear how other people perceive the world. So I think that's where it comes from.

Cristiano 57:29

Yeah. You know, you're not coming from a provoking place, but you're coming from like interest and curiosity.

Julian/Phantom 57:36

Exactly. But I know it doesn't always come off that way. um that and i do account for like other people and usually so the times where i have gone too far i take it from the person's perspective not just what they're hearing like their perspective on me but also try to go back into like what i know about them like how they were raised how like the society what culture they were around just to kind of get an answer like oh why was this taking the way it was if you know me. But that's just me.

Cristiano 58:12

Yeah,

Julian/Phantom 58:12

you just considerate both sides. Yeah, because like I said, I know the things that I do ask are heavy and not everyone's willing to have such an open conversation. So when it's taken wrong, I'm like, okay, I messed up. Where... It's like I asked for the why. I'm like, why did this happen in this way with the information that I have? I don't

Cristiano 58:40

think it's your mess, though. I think you just carry your curious self around. And then if somebody doesn't want to talk about it, you didn't create any mess.

Unknown 58:55

Yeah.

Cristiano 58:55

It's a boundary and you just need to respect it and maybe try again when you build the trust again.

Julian/Phantom 59:01

Yeah, that's exactly what I attempt to do. Once I realized, I'm like, oh, my bad. Didn't mean to take it this far. I see how you see it. If you feel like talking to me again, I'm here. That's the other thing. I try not to force people to talk to me because I know people want to talk to me. I have no way. No, I have not blocked anyone. So if you wanted to get in contact with me, I'm like, you can, I'll let, I'm not going to, I'll let you work, whatever you have to work out on your own time.

Cristiano 59:38

Yeah. Got something to learn.

Julian/Phantom 59:44

Thank you. Thank you. That, that actually means a lot, but this is just me. I'm telling you, this is truly just me, but. Oh yeah.

Cristiano 59:52

That's like, it goes back to like when you share about yourself, you learn anyway. So yeah.

Julian/Phantom 59:59

Yeah. Yeah. And I think I got that one from TV because I, I've, I've learned a lot from the world through the aspects of TV, like what is right and what is wrong, meaning through cartoons. So that's, and that has definitely shaped the version of myself that I am right now.

Cristiano 1:00:17

You have a curious and multifaceted mind for sure.

Julian/Phantom 1:00:23

Thank you. Is there anything else you want to ask? Because like I said, we have all day. I don't want to take up too much of your time.

Cristiano 1:00:31

That's fine. I think we've discussed a few topics in depth. Yeah.

Julian/Phantom 1:00:39

Very, very true. So thank you for your openness. Thank you. No, again, thank you for, you know, wanting to be here sharing this conversation.

Guest info

Julian/Phantom 1:00:48

The floor is yours. If you want to share anything, talk about anything, the floor is yours. You got it.

Cristiano 1:00:53

Well, yeah, I guess about my book. It's called Awaken by the Forest. It is a book I've started after I've done my ayahuasca experience in the Amazonian jungle in the end of 2024. And it is a book that talks about my experience with psychedelic and how that links to my childhood traumas and how it's allowing my integration to unfold and to reshape my present, therefore my future. Hopefully I can get it published by October, November. So I'm working on the editing at the moment. And I've got two blog pages on Substack. So one page is called the Hybrid Soul Blog, where I share and write about everything that I want to without filters, from sexuality, spirituality, psychedelic, shadow, all the things that we discussed in more depth, more details. And I've just created another page, which is called Oniric Lives. where I share about my oneric experiences, dreams, and how I help people to get more intimate with their dreams and how to develop intuition and guidance based on dreams in a waking life too, and eventually how to interpret them at the same time. And then people, if they want to get in touch with me, I'm open also on my Instagram page. I share poems or like brief stories and updates. So thank you for giving me the chance to chat. I guess showcase my platforms

Julian/Phantom 1:02:51

yes no of course definitely send it send it to me I'll have it all in the description and everything so anyone can always find you if they click on this episode they will always have a way to get to you Cool.

Cristiano 1:03:04

I appreciate it so much.

Julian/Phantom 1:03:05

Yeah, of course. And I've seen your Instagram. I went reviewing you and I looked at you and I'm like, you seem very funny. I will tell you that much. But before I let you go, something I like to do is The Thing. My

The thing

Julian/Phantom 1:03:23

thing is always a quote. Just because I've been collecting quotes for years now. But the thing is, it actually comes from Charlemagne the God. The thing is, the content of your character is your choice. Day by day, what you choose, what you think, and what you do is who you become.

Cristiano 1:03:44

Well, mic drop.

Julian/Phantom 1:03:47

But no, that is the episode. I like to give a standoff by saying, don't forget to ask yourself. ask others and never stop asking questions. See

Cristiano 1:03:59

you.